"Horrified": Seymour Hersh Reacts to Obama's Plan to
Send 250 More U.S. Special Ops Troops to Syria
Video and
Transcript
April 30, 2016
"Information
Clearing House"
- "Democracy
Now"- President
Obama has announced the deployment of 250 more
Special Operations troops to Syria in a move that
nearly doubles the U.S. presence in the country.
This comes just days after the Obama administration
announced 217 more troops would be sent to Iraq to
help in the fight against the self-proclaimed
Islamic State. As the U.S. expands its presence in
Iraq and Syria, we speak with the legendary
investigative journalist Seymour Hersh, who has just
published a new book titled "The Killing of Osama
bin Laden." In the introduction, Hersh writes: "It’s
now evident, fifteen years after the 9/11 attacks,
that Obama’s foreign policy has maintained many of
the core elements of the Global War on Terror
initiated by his predecessor—assassinations, drone
attacks, heavy reliance on special forces, covert
operations and, in the case of Afghanistan, the
continued use of American ground forces in combat.
And, as in the years of Bush and Cheney, there has
been no progress, let alone victory, in the fight
against terrorism."
TRANSCRIPT
This is a
rush transcript. Copy may not be in its final
form.
AMYGOODMAN:
We’re on a
100-city tour marking Democracy Now!'s
20th anniversary. Today, we're broadcasting from the
Roundhouse, the Santa Fe, New Mexico, Legislature,
here in Santa Fe.
President
Obama has announced the deployment of 250 more
Special Operations troops to Syria in a move that
nearly doubles the U.S. presence in Syria. This
comes just days after the Obama administration
announced 217 more troops would be sent to Iraq to
help in the fight against ISIS.
Earlier today, President Obama addressed the wars in
Syria and Iraq during a speech in Germany.
PRESIDENTBARACKOBAMA:
Right now, the most urgent threat to our nations
is ISIL. And that’s
why we’re united in our determination to destroy
it. And all 28 NATO
allies are contributing to our coalition,
whether it’s striking ISIL
targets in Syria and Iraq, or supporting the air
campaign or training local forces in Iraq or
providing critical humanitarian aid. And we
continue to make progress, pushing
ISIL back from
territory that it controlled.
And
just as I’ve approved additional support for
Iraqi forces against ISIL,
I’ve decided to increase U.S. support for local
forces fighting ISIL
in Syria. A small number of American Special
Operations forces are already on the ground in
Syria, and their expertise has been critical as
local forces have driven ISIL
out of key areas. So, given the success, I’ve
approved the deployment of up to 250 additional
U.S. personnel in Syria, including special
forces, to keep up this momentum. They’re not
going to be leading the fight on the ground, but
they will be essential in providing the training
and assisting local forces as they continue to
drive ISIL back.
AMYGOODMAN:
As the U.S. expands its presence in Iraq and Syria,
we turn to the legendary investigative journalist
Seymour Hersh, who won the Pulitzer Prize for
exposing the 1968 My Lai Massacre in Vietnam, when
U.S. forces killed hundreds of civilians. In 2004,
Sy Hersh broke the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse
scandal. He has just published a new book titled
The Killing of Osama bin Laden. In the
introduction, Hersh writes, quote, "It’s now
evident, fifteen years after the 9/11 attacks, that
Obama’s foreign policy has maintained many of the
core elements of the Global War on Terror initiated
by his predecessor—assassinations, drone attacks,
heavy reliance on special forces, covert operations
and, in the case of Afghanistan, the continued use
of American ground forces in combat. And, as in the
years of Bush and Cheney, there has been no
progress, let alone victory, in the fight against
terrorism."
Seymour
Hersh, it’s great to have you back on Democracy
Now! Congratulations on your book. Why don’t we
start by talking about what President Obama
announced in his speech in Germany today, just hours
before this broadcast: increased troop presence in
Syria. What does it mean?
SEYMOURHERSH:
First, happy anniversary. Glad you’re still around,
kiddo.
AMYGOODMAN:
Thank you.
SEYMOURHERSH:
Well, one of the words he doesn’t mention is Russia.
Look, I can’t begin to tell you what’s in his mind.
It’s a little amazing at this stage he’s putting
more forces in, but that’s—you know, that’s his
prerogative, I guess, as president. Always makes
good news. Nobody ever—nobody seems in this country
ever to object too much when we put more people on
the ground.
But the
real winner in the last year or so of the war there
has been the Russians. And the Russians—the bombing
was much more effective. If you remember, the
president had said publicly, when Putin decided to
put his air force hard at work there, he said it
would be a quagmire, they wouldn’t be able to get
out, it’s going to be, you know, schadenfreude—it
would be like what happened to us in Afghanistan,
and is happening to us, and certainly did happen to
us in Vietnam. But they did it. They came in, and
they did very well.
I will tell
you right now, Russian special forces are in the
fight against ISIS with
the Syrian army, with Hezbollah, with the Iranian
army, the Quds Force. And the Russians have done an
awful lot to improve the Syrian army in the past
year—retrained them, reoutfitted them, etc., etc.,
etc. It’s a much better army since the Russians came
in. The fighting in Palmyra that the Syrian army and
the Russian special forces did was much bloodier.
ISIS fought to the death.
It was a terrible toll on everybody, but it was a
victory for the Syrian army. We know all these
things. The Syrian army is much better. It’s
probably going to—probably—we don’t know. I don’t
know. Nobody knows. It will probably take Raqqa, the
former capital city, if you will, ad hoc
capital city of ISIS.
ISIS is on the run,
particularly in Syria, not necessarily in Iraq.
And I just
don’t understand what the president is doing, why he
wants to engage more. But, you know, it’s not my
call. I would also—I’ve been told there are many
more forces in Iraq than we’re publicly announcing,
including even some elements of one of our airborne
divisions. What the hell? As usual, we don’t really
know what the game plan is. I do not understand why
he’s decided to jump into a war that was being run
by—it’s being won right now by the Syrian army and
its allies, including Russia. I just—I can just
speculate that our anti-Putin, anti-Russian instinct
in America continues apace. That’s all.
AMYGOODMAN:
In your introduction to your new book, The
Killing of Osama bin Laden, you write, "In a
review of my interviews about Obama’s early decision
to raise the ante in Afghanistan, one fact stood
out: Obama’s faith in the world of special
operations and in Stanley McChrystal, the commander
of US forces in Afghanistan who worked closely with
Dick Cheney from 2003 to 2008 as director of [JSOC]
the Joint Special Operations Command." Seymour
Hersh, can you elaborate on this?
SEYMOURHERSH:
Well, it’s amazing. Look, you win the
presidency—hope and peace, or whatever it was—and
you discover, because of—you know, you don’t have
the power you might dream you would have. You can’t
get a lot of things done, because you’ve got a very
hostile Congress. And so—and presidents, inevitably,
in frustration—look, I’ve been in this town since
the '60s. There's nothing more wonderful for a
president—you can feel more like a president by
taking a walk with somebody from the Special
Operations community or, earlier, the
CIA in the Rose Garden,
and getting rid of somebody you don’t like, whether
you’re—in the case of—what we do now is we do
targeted assassinations. Earlier, I think we just
moved them out of office or did operations, you
know, political operations. But now it’s really
just, you know, we hit people. You know, there’s a
weekly meeting in which they go through names of
people to target, assassinate, including, in some
cases, an American, without any due process. It’s
been a wonderful movement. I don’t mean to be too
sarcastic about it, but what—you know, this guy
ended up in the same place in far too many times, as
you read and as I wrote, as Bush and Cheney were.
AMYGOODMAN:
Can you explain what these Special Ops forces are
doing, both in Iraq and Syria?
SEYMOURHERSH:
I really don’t know. I mean, I know what I’m told,
but I just don’t know what the truth is. Clearly,
they’re going to be engaged more. They’re helping to
plan operations. But I—we’re great at—we do a lot of
dirty tricks in the world. You know, we were inside
Iran in the first decade of this year, when
the—before the Iranians began to talk seriously
about getting rid of their nuclear weapons, that
don’t exist, that never did exist. We were doing
operations inside the Iranian—the borders, and also
we even went inside Tehran with surrogates. I mean,
yes, we went inside Tehran. We did monitoring for
nuclear activity, etc., etc. So we’ve been deeply
involved in that world in covert operations. And how
much first-hand stuff, I don’t really have. I
haven’t actually talked to somebody who was in
Tehran, but we were doing a lot of stuff, including
working with people who were doing stuff like
blowing up mosques and trying to whack Iranian
scientists. So I assume—one target I do know, the
president has designated, is he really wants to take
out Mr. Baghdadi, the head of
ISIS. He’s been a high-priority assassination
target for more than a year. We could be doing
something like that.
But we’re
certainly working with the—there’s not much you can
do in Iraq, because the Iraqi army—you know, it’s
the usual story: They’re going to run away. We’ve
been—one of the great classic lies of America is,
every year, some two-star general who’s involved
with training either the Afghans or, in earlier
years, the Vietnam—Vietnamese, or the Iraqi army,
they come before Congress. And the two-star looks
them in the eye. He’s the general in charge of
training, and his promotion depends on not so much
what he does, but what he says, I guess, at this
point. And he tells the Congress how wonderful it’s
going on, we’ve got x number of divisions ready to
fight. And the congresspeople all nod. It’s a little
parody that goes on. And, of course, the armies cut
and run, and they’re no good, and they haven’t been.
And the Iraqi army we have right now, that we’re
talking so wonderfully about, is not going to go
near Mosul. It’s going to be hand-to-hand fighting.
If we ever do go into Mosul, we’re going to
[inaudible]. So, there you are. You know, I—
AMYGOODMAN:
Were you—
SEYMOURHERSH:
Yes, I’m sorry.
AMYGOODMAN:
Sy, were you surprised by President Obama’s
announcement today in Germany?
SEYMOURHERSH:
Horrified. I just don’t think it’s the way to go. I
think it’s just putting us into—you know, as you
mentioned in your introduction, we’ve been doing
this war against terror, against an idea, since
after 9/11, you know? And how are we doing, fellas?
How’s it going there? You know, has the amount of
opposition to us spread? Has the hatred of America
grown more intense? We are truly a very much hated
country in the Middle East. And it’s partly because
of the way we fight our wars—with drone attacks and
a lot of force, the prisons that we did. And Abu
Ghraib was just one of many prisons. And a lot of
killing goes on by us, you know.
And here’s
how things have changed, for me, anyway. I’m writing
the same kind of stories now about this president,
very critical stories, because, you know, somebody
has to hold him to—you know, at least based on what
I think is as good as evidence I’ve ever had in all
the stories I wrote for The New York Times
in the '70s. I was there for six, seven, eight years
as a sort of a hotshot there in the Washington
bureau. And I wrote a lot of stories, won a lot of
prizes, going after the president, going after wars,
going after Kissinger, writing about illegal
activities. And all of a sudden, the same stories,
still anonymous—I mean, I wrote them anonymously
then, and I'm writing them anonymously now. And some
of the people I knew then, believe it or not, are
still operating now. And it’s like, we can’t do
that. It’s like the American press has moved to the
right, as many elements in this country, as you see,
when the Sanders case has moved to the left. It’s a
much more outspoken opposition to some of the things
we—the way we run campaigns. And underneath that
is—of those people who support Sanders, also really
dislike much more intensely the wars that are going
on and the lies that are being told. But, you know,
times have changed.
AMYGOODMAN:
Sy Hersh, we’re going to break and then come back to
this discussion. We’re speaking to Pulitzer
Prize-winning journalist Seymour Hersh for the hour
today. He has a new book out; it’s called The
Killing of Osama bin Laden. We’re going to also
talk about that, the latest in what’s known about
the killing of bin Laden in Pakistan, the Saudi
government’s support for him in hiding there, what
the U.S. knew, as well as many other issues. This is
Democracy Now! We’ll be back in a minute.
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