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In
his own words:Assange witness explains fabrications
A major witness in the United States’ Department of Justice
case against Julian Assange casts serious doubt on statements
found in the indictment against the Wikileaks founder.
By Stundin
September 12, 2021 -- "Information
Clearing House -
"Stunddin"
As Stundin
previously reported, a key
witness in the case against Julian Assange has admitted to
fabrications and thus cast serious doubt on statements found in
the indictment against the Wikileaks founder. We can now share
audio recordings of that witness, Sigurdur Ingi (Siggi)
Thordarson, where he discusses his part in the case and what
originally led him to entangle himself in an FBI investigation
while he was a delinquent teenager on a crime spree.
The excerpts
presented here are taken from over nine hours of audio
recordings of Thordarson willingly discussing his crimes and
deceptions with Stundin’s reporter.
One issue,
that was raised in the updated indictment against Assange
presented to UK courts for the purposes of seeking extradition
to the United States, is the claim that he received audio files
containing secret recordings of members of the Icelandic
parliament.
Thordarson,
known also as Siggi, now says he handed Assange a USB
drive in early 2010 but had no knowledge of what was on it. He
did not even know if there were any actual audio files on the
drive, much less what such files may have contained. This
appears to contradict the indictment, where Siggi Thordarson is
cited as a source.
Reporter:
“You also sent it to Julian?”
Siggi:
“Yes, well, I gave him a memory
stick.”
Reporter:
“A memory stick with the
conversations on it?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
”OK. So he received these phone
calls?”
Siggi:
“At least he received some files.
I never listened to them so I have no idea what was on there.”
Reporter:
“You didn’t feel like checking it
out to hear it? How large was this file?”
Siggi:
“I don’t remember, I was doing
something at the time so I thought I’d just throw it at Julian
and he’d go over it.”
Reporter:
“OK, but how large was this file?
How large was the memory stick, was it like 16 gigabytes or 2
gigabytes?”
Siggi:
“No, no, it would have been on a
34 or 64 gigabyte stick.”
The UK
judge cited this part of the indictment in the judgment over
extradition, saying Thordarson was asked by Assange: “...to hack
into computers to obtain information including audio recordings
of phone conversations between high-ranking officials, including
members of the Parliament, of the government of “NATO country 1”
[Note: Here the prosecution claims that Assange is not charged
for receiving or publishing information offered to him, but
rather that he actively sought out information. As an example of
this, the prosecution claims that the parliament call recording
incident was an attempt to obtain the data through hacking.]
When
confronted, Thordarson admits this is not true but claims he is
not allowed to elaborate on why the indictment does not match
his purported testimony.
Reporter:
“Did you tell the FBI that…”
Siggi:
“That I hacked them? No.”
Reporter:
“...and that Assange asked you to hack them?”
Siggi:
“No.”
Reporter:
“Then why does the indictment
claim you said that?”
Siggi:
“I can’t answer that.”
Reporter:
“Is it because you don’t want to,
or is it because of the FBI you can’t answer?”
Siggi:
“I can’t answer that.”
Reporter:
“Why can’t you answer?”
Siggi:
“Because I’m not allowed to.”
Thordarson
was recently called in to provide further testimony on the case
in the United States. He says he cannot go into details about
his trip but the focus of the discussion was on new information,
rather than confirming what he had claimed before.
Siggi:
“There were a lot of questions
that had never been raised before, so that wouldn’t have made
sense.”
Reporter:
“OK, so there was an attempt to
open a new line of investigation as my sources claim?”
Siggi:
“A new line?”
Reporter:
“In other words, they were
looking into other subjects than they had previously done with
you?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“And those subjects pertained to
extending the investigation into different areas than contained
in this indictment?”
Siggi:
“I couldn’t say.”
Reporter:
“You couldn’t say or you aren’t allowed to say?”
Siggi:
“Either one.” *laughs*
Reporter:
“You have to choose one, Siggi!
You have to pick an option!”
Siggi:
“I can’t comment on that.”
Reporter:
“So you aren’t allowed to
comment?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
The FBI
has access to communications between Julian Assange and Chelsea
Manning, as they seized computer equipment belonging to the
latter when she was arrested. In one conversation Assange
mentions receiving documents relating to the collapse of the
Icelandic banking system. The collapse was a direct result of
reckless and even criminal actions by top-level bankers, and
Wikileaks had exposed similar wrongdoing at another Icelandic
bank two years earlier.
Thordarson
has now revealed himself to be the source mentioned in the chat
log between Manning and Assange. However, he simply laughed and
declined to go on the record when asked how he managed to steal
the documents from under the noses of the resolution committee
of the failed bank Glitnir.
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Reporter:
“On the 5th of March 2010 Assange said to Manning that he had
acquired stolen bank documents from a source, that source was in
fact you?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“What bank documents are those?”
Siggi:
“From Milestone and Glitnir and…”
Reporter:
“OK, those are the Milestone
documents you had taken with a memory stick that you just used
to take it from their computer, right? The computer was open,
wasn’t it?”
Siggi:
“I don’t remember. But these are
documents that pertain to...”
Reporter:
“But these are the documents you
took, the Milestone…”
Siggi:
“Yeah, he was talking about
those.”
Reporter:
“OK, but is he talking about
something more than that? Because...
Siggi:
“Yeah, because I had and still
have Glitnir bank’s loan book that was never published. I also
had a file that was Landsbanki’s loan book but it was encrypted.
I was going to get David House to see if he could use this
supercomputer at MIT to encr… decrypt it.”
Reporter:
“Decrypt it. That’s the file that
was floating around everywhere online? Everyone was trying to
decrypt it, it had already been downloaded…”
Siggi:
“Indeed.”
Reporter:
“What about the Glitnir loan
book, where did that come from?”
Siggi:
“Ahaha… I’ll tell you that off
the record.”
Thordarson is a well
known fraudster in Iceland and appears to have made his living
through the years by cheating and stealing from a long list of
local companies. As part of his fraudulent schemes he ran an
online store with Wikileaks merchandise in 2010 and claimed to
be raising money for the organization. However, it all went into
his personal bank account and he refuses to say what he did with
the money he stole from Wikileaks.
Reporter:
“I’m a little curious to know
where that went…”
Siggi:
“I’ll let you know as soon as I
find out, haha!”
Reporter:
“OK, so you got the money
deposited into your bank account, right?”
Siggi:
“Indeed.”
Reporter:
“We can go off the record if you
want?”
Siggi:
“Doesn’t matter, I admitted to it
in court. But you see the store was and always had been in my
name.”
Members of
the Wikileaks organization eventually became aware of what was
happening and tried desperately to find Thordarson and recover
the money. He was also wanted for various other crimes in
Iceland, including financial fraud and sexual abuse of minors.
It was at this time he decided to walk into the United States
embassy in Reykjavík and offer testimony against Assange in
exchange for protection. However, this inadvertently put him in
even more trouble.
Thordarson
had previously been in contact with the infamous hacking
collective known as Lulzec, headed by a person using the alias
Sabu. What Thordarson did not know at the time was that Sabu had
been arrested by the FBI and turned informant only a month
earlier. By asking Sabu to hack Icelandic government sites
Thordarson had so thoroughly incriminated himself that US
authorities had him in a vice. He says officials told him he
faced a lengthy prison sentence if he didn’t cooperate fully.
Reporter:
“They just say to you, here’s the
situation, and they lay it out.”
Siggi:
“Yup.”
Reporter:
“And that didn’t paint a pretty
picture according to my sources.”
Siggi:
“Indeed.”
Reporter:
“They were perhaps even pointing
out that you were headed to prison imminently if you didn’t
answer the FBIs questions and work with the FBI on this. You are
panicking at that point.”
Siggi:
“I don’t look at it as a threat.
Stating the obvious isn’t necessarily a threat.”
Reporter:
“Look... it feels like the
Icelandic police were telling you that they would make the
charges in Iceland disappear.”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“...and the FBI would make the
American charges disappear? So by making an immunity deal with
the Americans you would be off the hook for anything that could
cause you problems back home?”
Siggi:
“Huh. That’s news to me.”
It appears
the deal was for Thordarson to provide statements that could
strengthen the indictment against Assange, in exchange for total
immunity. He would get away with his crimes, as he himself put
it.
Reporter:
“You were the small fry, you knew
they wanted the big fish, and you provided everything to help
them catch the big fish.”
Siggi:
“Yeah. I agree with that
portrayal, that’s the way it was. But the idea when I was there
back in the summer of 2011 or whatever, that wasn’t the idea. I
had just been backed into a massive corner and I folded.”
Reporter:
“OK, but you can see that from my
point of view this story is full of holes.”
Siggi:
“Sure.”
Reporter:
“The amount of pressure you are
under, mental and physical, from the FBI. If you aren’t
cooperating 110% you are simply f---ked.”
Siggi:
“They would have already revoked
this immunity deal if I was lying.”
Reporter:
“Is that really so?”
Siggi:
“Yes!”
Reporter:
“Because they are basing a lot on
just your word.”
Siggi:
“It’s stated many times in my
agreement that if I were to be caught out lying, just one false
word, the immunity agreement would be revoked. And they could
proceed with prosecuting me. There is nothing in the indictment
about what evidence they have, the justice system doesn’t
require that to be public.”
Reporter:
“Actually that is part of
discovery...”
Siggi:
“When it goes to court.”
Reporter:
“Sure, but…”
Siggi:
“There you have an indictment
that will be added to later.
Reporter:
“Yes, but still, if they can’t
get him extradited from the UK they have no case.”
Siggi:
“The [UK] judge didn’t refuse
extradition based on the evidence of the case, it was for health
reasons.”
Reporter:
“Exactly.”
Siggi:
“Are you trying to tell me they
wouldn’t just immediately request extradition from whatever
country he would travel to next? The only thing that can save
Julian now is if Joe Biden blows the whole thing off.”
Reporter:
“What would happen to you in that
case?”
Siggi:
“I don’t know.”
Reporter:
“I mean if the US attorney general says the investigation is
over and nothing further will be done, because Biden says so,
what happens to you?”
Siggi:
“I have an immunity agreement, it
wouldn’t be invalidated.”
Reporter:
“Even if the case is dismissed?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“So you get away with all your
crimes?”
Siggi:
“That is my understanding.”
It is not
clear to what extent the Icelandic authorities were informed
about these arrangements, if at all. Indeed Thordarson claims he
was assured by the FBI that no information would be shared with
the Icelandic police about crimes he committed in Iceland,
particularly the hacking attempts against Icelandic
institutions.
Siggi:
“My worry was that if I told them
who was hacked and how, like Landsvirkjun and the government’s
website and all that, I would become a target of Icelandic
authorities.”
Reporter:
“Why?”
Siggi:
“Eventually I asked if they
[Icelandic authorities] would get access to the data I talked
about and they [the FBI] just said no, that would never happen.
That was the only discussion I had with the FBI about Icelandic
authorities.”
Thordarson is
now 28 but was a teenager when he volunteered to work for
Wikileaks a decade ago. He claims to hold no personal ill will
against Julian Assange but regrets getting involved in “this
adventure” as he puts it. Thordarson says he suffers from
extreme anxiety and insomnia as a result of his experiences and
does not fully trust the FBI or the American justice department
to keep up their end of the deal, but is hopeful they will.
Siggi:
“Of course they can fuck me up!
Of course they can. In that case it’s just a ball I’ll tackle
when it gets to me, I can't be bothered to think about it
beforehand.”
Reporter:
“It’s a pretty big ball, Siggi!”
Siggi:
“For sure! I won’t deny that, not
at all. But will it help me to worry about it at this point?
No.
Reporter:
“Do you have anxiety about the [Assange] case being dropped?”
Siggi:
“About what will happen?”
Reporter:
“Yes.”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“So the prospect of Julian being
a free man, it gives you anxiety?”
Siggi:
“Him being free? I would
celebrate that.”
Reporter:
“Ok, but…”
Siggi:
“As far as the impact on me
personally, we’ll just have to find out.”
Reporter:
“OK, I know you and Julian had a
very close relationship.”
Siggi:
“Mhm.”
Reporter:
“You do realize this testimony
could cost him his life.”
Siggi:
“I do.”
Reporter:
“How does that make you feel?”
Siggi:
“What we’re dealing with there is
that you shouldn’t just bring a 17 or 18 year old boy into
something like this.”
Reporter:
“Are you angry at him?”
Siggi:
“No.”
Reporter:
“Do you feel hurt?”
Siggi:
“No.”
Reporter:
“What are your feelings toward
Julian today?”
Siggi:
“I… don’t know.”
He
elaborates, saying the entire thing felt unreal and more like a
computer simulation than real life at the time.
Siggi:
“It’s no secret that I was ***
scared out of my mind. Like I have said many times, an 18 year
old teenager doesn’t have any clue what he is doing. You’re not
playing a fucking video game, you aren’t playing The Sims or
Black… what is… what is the one, I don’t play video games and
don’t know the names. Call of Duty?”
Reporter:
“It’s actually damn good.”
Siggi:
“OK! But what I mean is you don’t
realize it. And that is the worst part, I still don’t comprehend
it today. It wasn’t like we were publishing something in the
school paper.”
Reporter:
“No, what you published was the
real deal.”
Siggi:
“Exactly. And that’s what one
doesn’t realize.”
Reporter:
“But do you feel like you did
something wrong by publishing these documents? Do you think it
was wrong?”
Siggi:
“Hm. Today, I would say yes.”
Thordarson
believes he has the right to speak to the media, despite his
agreement with the US authorities. He accepts culpability for
his own crimes but says ultimately Assange should be held
responsible for those crimes as the head of the Wikileaks
organization at the time.
Siggi:
“There is nothing in my agreement
that states…”
Reporter:
“That you can’t talk to the
media?”
Siggi:
“No, the only thing they may have
asked of me was to not divulge my conversations with them.”
Reporter:
“OK, but like I said, this is
obviously a very serious case and you have clearly done a lot of
things.”
Siggi:
“Mhm.”
Reporter:
“Do you think you should be
charged in this indictment alongside Julian?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“You think so?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“So what if Julian decided to save himself by squealing on you?
Because it was you that accepted most of these documents. You
are the front man.”
Siggi:
“Mhm.”
Reporter:
“Doesn’t it seem strange to you
that he is the one who is going to be punished for things that
you did?”
Siggi:
“Things that I did? He was the
editor in chief, it’s self-evident that if you are the editor
you are responsible, right?”
Convicted for sex crimes against
minors
Apart from
his well documented and extensive financial fraud against
Wikileaks and many companies in Iceland, he has also been
convicted of sex crimes against nine under-age boys who he
deceived and coerced into giving him sexual favours. Five other
similar cases were dropped due to lack of evidence. One of the
victims committed suicide after prosecutors dropped charges
specifically related to his abuse. Thordarson, who was diagnosed
with sociopathy by a court-appointed psychiatrist, claims to be
haunted by these events.
Reporter:
“We are talking about a boy who
felt like you had abused him.”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“His case was dropped.”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“He was denied justice.”
Siggi:
“Indeed.”
Reporter:
“He then commits suicide. I’m not
saying you are solely responsible for that but you do bear some
responsibility.”
Siggi:
“I know that. Believe me, I know.
100%. I even tried to talk to the state prosecutor and asked,
for sake of argument, if this case could be addressed to bring
it to a close. They said no.”
Reporter:
“Do you think you should have
been convicted on the five charges that were dropped?”
Siggi:
“Well, some of those cases that
were dropped were just ridiculous. One of them was about a
message I sent to someone on MSN asking if he wanted to have
sex. But the boy who killed himself, his case should have gone
forward.”
Reporter:
“You made extravagant promises to
him, you don’t remember? You promised him a monthly salary of a
million króna [$7.800]. All he had to do was sleep with you.”
Siggi:
“Yeah.”
Reporter:
“And if he didn’t want to sleep
with you any more he could keep the money, you’d sign a contract
to that effect. You remember this?”
Siggi:
“Yes.”
Reporter:
“You were bullshitting him, you
didn’t have that kind of money.”
Siggi:
“No, but it was still just
prostitution. That’s what it is, legally speaking.”
Reporter:
“I didn’t ask about the legal
definition.”
Siggi:
“But according to my conviction
that’s…”
Reporter:
“I know that. But I’m asking how
you feel about this, personally.”
Siggi:
“Right now? I think it’s
ridiculous.
Reporter:
“This goes beyond prostitution,
doesn’t it? I don’t mean in the legal sense, I’m just talking
about how it feels on a personal level. You pressuring this
young boy, who was saving up to buy himself a flat.
Reporter:
“I mean, you promised him a
computer, which you did indeed provide. But, I mean, you are
pressuring him a great deal and he’s not even gay.”
Siggi:
“No, but he had the choice to say
no.”
Reporter:
“He did say no.”
Siggi:
“OK.”
Reporter:
“Yet you continued.”
Siggi:
“OK. That’s how you hit on
people, ya know?”
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